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ASC Q4 2019 Meeting

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Joshua Hursey edited this page Nov 1, 2019 · 19 revisions

PMIx Standard Administrative Steering Committee (ASC) Q4 2019 Meeting

Overview

The Q4 2019 PMIx Standard Administrative Steering Committee (ASC) Meeting will be the first formal quarterly meeting for the standardization body.

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Agenda (timeline in chart below)

  • Overview of the PMIx Standard and the role of the ASC
  • Review PMIx Standard meeting logistics and governance rules
  • Overview of the scope of the PMIx Standard v5
  • Call for ASC Membership
  • Elections
    • Co-Chair (even-year) 2020-2022
    • Secretaries (odd-year) 2019-2021, (even-year) 2020-2022
    • Release Manager for PMIx Standard v5
  • Discuss "ASC Operating Procedures"
  • Governance PRs up for a vote:
  • PMIx Standard PRs up for a vote:
    • (None at this time)
  • Set dates for 2020 quarterly meetings
  • Working Group Presentations
  • Open call for new Working Groups
  • Discussion: Friday PMIx Standard meetings
    • Frequency of meetings, do we need to move the meeting to a different day/time, and content/purpose/goals.
  • Discussion: Adding ASC standing agenda item for technical presentations.

Agenda Timeline

We will try to keep to this timeline as best as we can. However, discussion items may take longer/shorter than anticipated and as a result, the agenda may need to be adjusted during the meeting.

All times in US Central. (Last Update: Oct. 15, 2019)

Start End Topic
11:00 am 11:05 Gathering
11:05 11:45 Overview of the PMIx Standard and the role of the ASC
Review PMIx Standard meeting logistics and governance rules
* Slides
11:45 12:00 Overview of the scope of the PMIx Standard v5
12:00 12:15 Call for ASC Membership
12:15 12:30 (break)
12:30 12:45 Elections
* Co-Chair (even-year) 2020-2022
* Secretary (odd-year) 2019-2021
* Secretary(even-year) 2020-2022
* Release Manager for PMIx Standard v5
12:45 1:45 Working Group: Implementation agnostic document
* Chapter 1 Current Draft
* Slides
1:45 2:15 (break)
2:15 2:30 Set dates for 2020 quarterly meetings
2:30 2:45 Discuss "ASC Operating Procedures"
https://github.com/pmix/governance/issues/6
2:45 3:00 Governance PRs up for a vote:
* https://github.com/pmix/governance/pull/4
* https://github.com/pmix/governance/pull/7
3:00 4:00 Working Group: Slicing/Grouping of functionality
* Slides
4:00 (end) Discussion Items:
* Open call for new Working Groups
* Discussion: Friday PMIx Standard meetings
* Discussion: Adding ASC standing agenda item for technical presentations

Notes

        Joshua Hursey (IBM)
	Artem Polyakov (Mellanox)
	Michael Karo (Altair)
	Bharath Ramesh  (OSU)
	Hari Subramoni (OSU)
	Danielle Sikich (Intel)
	Brice Goglin (INRIA)
	Bengisu Elis (TU Munich)
	Karthik Vadambacheri Manian (OSU)
	David Solt (IBM)
	Jithin Jose (Microsoft)
	Ken Raffenetti (ANL)
	John DelSignore (Rogue Wave)
	Kathryn Mohror (LLNL)
	Thomas Naughton (ORNL)
	Shane Snyder (ANL)
	Swaroop Pophale (ORNL)
	Ralph Castain (Intel)
	Stephen Herbein (LLNL)
	Jai Dayal (Intel)
	Amit Ruhela (OSU)
	Aurelien Bouteiller (UTK)
  • Will we discuss implementation issues? That might be more appropriate for OpenPMIx meetings, but we will discuss some at the end of the meeting
  • Are there competing efforts for tools interfaces like this? Not that anyone on the call was aware of
  • Questions on details of how interface works from hello world slide. Folks will follow up with questions after the call
  • ASC Leadership:
    • All nominated were voted in: 12 yes, 1 not present
    • Comment: In the future, we need to bring more diversity of organizations (academic, labs, industry) into leadership positions.
  • WG: Implementation Agnostic Document
    • PR: https://github.com/pmix/pmix-standard/pull/192
    • 1.1 Background - add paper references for PMI1 and PMI2 (maybe use the refs from the ASC slides)
    • 1.2 - first paragraph - some wording touchup needed (will take to working group meeting)
    • Discussion item: Section 1.2 - 2nd to last paragraph
      • “No necessarily requiring server API to be implemented as part of the PMIx implementation” Is it possible to have a PMIx implementation that is just the PMIx client interface without the PMIx server interface?
        • Yes it is fine, but doesn’t comply with the PMIx server chapter. Only conforms with the PMIx client interfaces.
        • You can build a PMIx implementation but need to make sure folks know that it doesn’t have the server interface.
      • Suggest rephrase around this scenario. Last sentence is problematic.
        • “If you do support X, then this is how it has to behave to conform to the PMIx standard”
        • A PMIx implementation may provide the tool and client interface, but it not conformant to the PMIx server interface.
    • Discussion Item: Remove the server interfaces?
      • Removing server interfaces would reduce adoption of PMIx since it increases the RM implementation burden and portability.
      • Would be difficult to then articulate the interaction of the tool interaction with the server.
    • 1.3 - last paragraph - This is where the functionality slices working group might want to add/adjust some text.
      • Also 1.3.1 - page 4 line 25: starting with “PMIx clients (e.g., tools…”
    • 1.3 also make it more clear that an entire API can return “not supported”
    • It would be nice to have a side-by-side PDF diff of the changes (if possible)
      • OpenMP folks figured out how to do this in LaTeX - reach out to that group to see if we can leverage the same technique. Produced a “clean” document and a “diff” document for review.
    • Discussion: How best to present the three sides of the interface?
      • Maybe we can re-work the structure of the document to help folks focused on one aspect of the interface to find the subset of the interface that they are focused on.
    • How should these changes be brought forward and incorporated?
      • Bring forward Chapter 1 changes for an official reading next quarter for a reading+vote.
  • 2020 ASC Meetings: Doodle poll this
    • Q1: January ->
    • Q2: April ->
    • Q3: July ->
    • Q4: October ->
    • Doodle: (Josh)
      • Weekdays - Tues., Wed., Thurs. for each week
      • Try to keep 11am CT start
      • Close in the next two weeks.
    • Face-to-Face:
      • Can we co-locate with another conference/meeting?
      • What venues should we think about?
        • MPI Forum
        • ???
      • Doodle poll for which Q to have the face-to-face (Josh)
  • ASC Operating procedures:
  • Vote: https://github.com/pmix/governance/pull/4
    • Passed: 11 yes, 2 not present
  • Working group: Grouping/Slicing of functionality
    • Discussion: Would you want to introspectively query the runtime for use-case support?
      • If we had an attribute to query against for use cases, then the use case will need a version of the standard associated with it to allow the use case to grow/change over time.
      • General support for doing this.
    • Discussion: Compatibility table for Use Cases x Resource Managers
      • Place it somewhere online.
        • Prior attempt was that it fell out of date quickly.
      • Ability to query for capabilities: Ask RM “What do you support for this interface?” and the RM would return a list.
        • Maybe package as a tool (i.e. pattrs tool in PRRTE) for the community to display the table and include use cases supported.
    • Discussion: Best way to publish this work?
      • Use cases may boil down to a specific set of unique attributes - which is then used through a specific API.
      • Appendix model: Use Cases reference back to the core of the document.
        • Will stay in sync with the standard document.
      • Appealing to have a portion of the document that focuses on specific functionality with cross-references.
        • v4 will have a first version of this that can be used as reference
    • Debugger/Tools use case related to Open MPI dropping support for MPIR
      • Open MPI doesn’t have a maintainer for MPIR, so moved towards PMIx debugger support.
      • Schedule to remove MPIR support in Open MPI next summer (Open MPI v5).
      • For the PMIx Standard - v4 will include a “how to” chapter for PMIx debugger support.
      • Concerned about transition period for Open MPI from MPIR to PMIx debugger interface. What is the timeline? Is there enough material to help with that transition?
      • Is it possible to have a MPIR-to-PMIx bridge wrapper?
        • Might be possible to build
  • Working Groups
    • Dynamic Workflows - Jai Dayal (Intel) will champion this working group
      • For example, Spark and TensorFlow.
      • Possible that model may not know the set of resources they need ahead of time. Would like to dynamically grow/shrink available resources.
      • Currently driving at an interface in tandem with the Spark implementation community.
    • Storage - Shane Snyder (ANL) will champion this working group
      • Staging of data to near-node caches during startup.
      • Example: Provide client APIs to request data to be moved and give estimates on how long that might take.
      • Lustre community expressed interested in collaborating on this issue
  • Discussion: PMIx Standard weekly teleconferences
    • Move the meeting to Monthly - first Friday of the month.
    • Can add more to the schedule if needed.
    • Agendas
      • Announce any new straw polls
      • Check in on the progression of various tickets
      • Check in with working groups
      • Organize the quarterly meeting agenda
  • Discussion: ASC standing agenda item for technical presentations
    • Early evaluations of provisional APIs
    • Presentations from communities struggling with resource utilization needs.
    • Implementation specific

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