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Benfey IAST #112

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funderburkjim opened this issue Apr 7, 2017 · 13 comments
Closed

Benfey IAST #112

funderburkjim opened this issue Apr 7, 2017 · 13 comments

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@funderburkjim
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funderburkjim commented Apr 7, 2017 •
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long-short vowel coding

There are numerous (200+) instances where Benfey uses a combined diacritic over a vowel to indicate
that the vowel is either short or long.

image

In converting to IAST, we will change the circumflex to a macron.

But how to represent the short-vowel sign also?

In the digitization, the ¤ (CURRENCY SIGN) is used. So, we could represent the above as ī¤.

aṅgulī¤

Another way would be to use the unicode Combining-Breve ī\u0306 (I can't paste this
combining breve in).

An alternate would be to introduce a separate xml-type markup, maybe something like

<longshort n="aṅguli">aṅgulī</longshort>

In MW, this is handled by putting an empty <shortlong/> tag after the vowel, as in

<H1><h><hc3>501</hc3><key1>aBiDI</key1><hc1>1</hc1><key2>aBi-<root>DI</root></key2>
</h><body> <p><ab>perf.</ab> <c>1.</c>~ <ab>sg.</ab>~<s>-dIDayA<shortlong/>
</s>~;~<ab>p.</ab>~ <vlex>A1.</vlex>~<s>-dI/DyAna</s>~<ls>RV._iv_,_33_,_9</ls></p>
 <c><to/>to_reflect_upon_,_consider</c> <ls>RV._iii_,_38_,_1_and_x_,_32_,_4.</ls> </body>
<tail><mul/> <MW>008408</MW> <pc>63,2</pc> <L>11550</L></tail></H1>

image

With the MW notation: aṅgulī<shortlong/>. The drawback
is that this leaves open the final resolution of the two forms of the vowel (although a short computation could look at the preceding vowel and deduce the two forms), and how to display
the two forms. Also, I am unsure in MW whether the vowel preceding <shortlong/> is always
the long vowel, as in the above example, and whether the length of the preceding vowel matters.

Although more verbose, one of the xml forms might be the best.

For consistency, maybe we should go with the MW markup scheme.

Any suggestions?
@gasyoun
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gasyoun commented Apr 7, 2017

In converting to IAST, we will change the circumflex to a macron.

Agree.

Another way would be to use the unicode Combining-Breve ī\u0306 (I can't paste this
combining breve in).

That would be the Unicode way. As there is no such sign in Unicode in my Charter font it's a private character.

breve

An alternate would be to introduce a separate xml-type markup, maybe something like aṅgulī

It would be better to update MW this way, than just aṅgulī<shortlong/>, because without the computation nobody knows what is behind it. And in this case, we should get a new alternative headword as well. So it's important to know that it is and not to calculate it each time.

@funderburkjim
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@gasyoun So you favor the combining breve: ī̆ ?

I think combining breve is widely available. I couldn't copy it from fileformat page for some reason.

@funderburkjim
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This combining-breve approach is reasonable when Latin letters with diacritics are used to represent Sanskrit.

It would not be appropriate in situations where the coding of Sanskrit uses SLP1, such as in MW.

I wonder if there is some Devanagari way to represent the short-long vowel situation.

@gasyoun
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gasyoun commented Apr 7, 2017

favor the combining breve: ī̆ ?

For typographical purposes - sure.

I couldn't copy it from fileformat page for some reason.

Neither do I.

I wonder if there is some Devanagari way to represent the short-long vowel situation.

No and that's where IAST is above Devanagari.

It would not be appropriate in situations where the coding of Sanskrit uses SLP1, such as in MW.

Let's ask Peter what tag to invent. It would be stupid not to have it and use always IAST instead of SLP1 where it makes sense. If Peter will not give one, we'll take it ourselves.

@drdhaval2785
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drdhaval2785 commented Apr 8, 2017 via email

@gasyoun
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gasyoun commented Apr 8, 2017

There are SLP2, 3, 4.

I'm aware.

There may be some item in them to represent this phenomenon

Jim, should I ask or you can?

@funderburkjim
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As I recall, the 'shortlong' tag was Peter's idea in the first place. But this may have been before his
LIES book, which describes the other SLP's.

Dhaval - How do Sanskrit Grammarians refer to such situations like (aNguli, aNgulI) ? Is this a topic
in traditional Sanskrit Grammar, or an invention of European grammarians of Sanskrit?

@drdhaval2785
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drdhaval2785 commented Apr 8, 2017 via email

@gasyoun
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gasyoun commented Apr 8, 2017

alternatives aNguli/aNgulI in single reading?

Yes.

@funderburkjim
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Purely European intervention

Thanks for confirming my suspicion.

Yes, I think Benfey is saying there are two alternate spellings.

@funderburkjim
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Benfey conversion to IAST now completed.

new ben.xml file available.

I ended up using the combining breve form: ī̆

@funderburkjim
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For future reference, the details are in pywork/20170407 folder.

This is part of the 'pywork' download for Benfey.

@gasyoun
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gasyoun commented Apr 11, 2017

I ended up using the combining breve form: ī̆

Good to know.

@drdhaval2785 drdhaval2785 mentioned this issue Sep 2, 2017
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@gasyoun @drdhaval2785 @funderburkjim