ALTFAN implementation #2692
ALTFAN implementation #2692
Conversation
* ALTFAN implementation * Use CRITICAL_SECTION macros * Use uint16_t instead of unsigned int * Add forgotten CRITICAL_SECTION * Documentation
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Is there any documentation on how to control or disable this? |
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@lord-carlos You can change the speed of the ALTFAN in your variant file https://github.com/prusa3d/Prusa-Firmware/blob/MK3/Firmware/variants/1_75mm_MK3S-EINSy10a-E3Dv6full.h#L337 |
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Why was it decided to cut Sunon fans to half speed? |
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@vertigo235 this is a generic solution for multiple fan types - if we detect speeds above 4k RPM (which is the default of the NOCTUA side fan) at the start, then we try to lower the RPM. The original idea was to keep the alternative fan's noise lower. |
Hello @DRracer, thank you for your quick replay.
If the user wants to have a low noise fan, I assume he will keep the Noctua? Or if it's defective buys a replacement noctua. |
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Could you make this feature adjustable via the LCD menu? The community would really appreciate to have the choice between silence and performance/reliability. |
I concur here. I bought a non-Noctua fan because I WANT more air passing through the hotend. If I was worried about noise, I would have kept the Noctua. This particular idea should be reconsidered, or redesigned for menu controllable fan limitations. |
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I use a sunon fan because the noctua gave me issues, cutting the RPM's in half on the sunon will just put me back in the same position as before. |
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I agree. Performance should not be risked for noise by default, reducing the max fan speed should be an optional setting and not the default. Like stealth mode. |
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@CodeMonkeyX they talk to Delta directly, they can have this made by them "in the wires". And Noctua fans are probably much more expensive than Delta so not necessarily more expensive. But yes this is a point to verify on their side. Note that MK2.5(S) has already a connector for the Noctua to use 5V from somewhere else as the Rambo Mini is 12V on the fan. |
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Since this speed reduction is triggered by higher than Noctua fan speeds sensed at startup - am I correct in assuming that turning off “fan sense” will prevent the speed reduction from happening? |
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Please make this a toggle in settings instead of forced. |
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This is a terrible idea, people change the fan because the noctua fan is simply not powerfull enaugh for some aplications and people change the fan for that reason. Now we have to compile firmware ourselfs to get it back to to work........... |
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As @josefprusa said, adding an option to the gcode commands would be the best since is the least invasive, non-complex, and probably more user-friendly (Obligatory Documentation ofc) option there is. As far I can see, the only argument here is the heat creep and the high ambient temperature of the room, and if I remember right, the Prusa farm is already quite hot and pretty sure they haven't got any problem at all, the worst scenario would two or three would fail. |
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Limiting the speed of maglev fans with PWM destroys them. So in other words, most users with the sunon fan mod will have their hardware destroyed by this PR. Check note 7 in this document: |
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Why not link it to "silent" mode? If someone wants the printer quiet they would run it like that anyway. |
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The Menu option should say "Hotend Fan Mode: [Poor / Normal]" |
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I use silent mode a lot, and that doesn't necessarily mean I want to run my hotend fan slower, it doesn't matter to me anyway, as the blower fan is louder. Is it that hard to just add an entry to HW Setup where you can override the standard fan speed? You can of course keep it at the "SILENT" speed when stock, but I see no reason we shouldn't have an easy way to change it, we can change the blower speed too afterall, and that thing is louder than the hotend fan anyway. |
Careful, the next update will be to limit all blower fans to 50% :D |
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@vertigo I get it. I did the same thing and changed the fan and here I am giving my 2 cents. Don't beat a dead horse. @PaulGameDev your comments is what I thought of too after I posted. I never use it because I want performance, but I can see your scenario. |
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Lighten up guys, I like to tell jokes, I think this will be addressed, I love the idea of allowing user settable GCODE. We are all friends here. |
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Taking a step back, is there a way that this could be used to better harmonize printers? Other g code parameters are unitized so 1mm is the same everywhere, but fan speed is arbitrary. A simple 100% = 3500RPM to properly set full range could be used as a scale and a separate Max fan speed = XXXX RPM much like firmware speed limits on the axis motors would serve as a high end trim. If done elegantly this would be just another useful feature to fine tune performance. Elegance may be difficult however and there would still be many debates regarding g codes, menu options, and defaults for new firmware. The bigger thing is new customers will be getting a more powerful fan stock which is nothing but good news for the community provided they can easily enable this additional performance. A short prompt in the initial calibration wizzard would ensure everyone gets to pick their preference. |
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Please make this a menu selectable or gcode option. I print in my office, and in the summer I will get heat creep unless I blast the AC for the whole print. I changed to a Sunon fan, problems gone. It's actually not very noisy, and even if it's louder than a noctua I am fine with that. |
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So after brainstorming here with the @DRracer the current plan is to make a hidden menu (we still have to agree on how to call it but imagine triple click in support menu or similar for example) for options like this. I really don't want to make the normal menus more crowded with features which are unrelated/confusing for users with no mods. Contrary to the feeling from the online communities, less than 3% of users ever did any mod based on our customer survey. With 150k+ MK3s in the wild, anything confusing kills the support and regular issues don't get resolved swiftly. BTW, I don't like making this decision under pressure of flamewar quickly when we would have more time to think about this in the near future as the release would get closer ... |
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@josefprusa So will the sunon maglev fan destroyer feature be activated by default or do the users have to activate this manually? And for what it's worth, I think your proposed solution is very good and it's nice that you are hearing the voices of the community like this. I'm just concerned about the ones having a fan mod not realizing that they need to deactivate a feature in order to not have their hardware destroyed. There needs to be a super clear disclaimer I think. |
Low rpm alt fan has to be active by default, no? Otherwise new users who get a printer with an delta fan would have to active it themself. Would be a weird request for brand new users. |
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@lord-carlos I can assure you that plenty of users who change the fan don't know what they do. No fan limiting by PWM should definitely be activated by default. I think a silent mode would be better because:
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@DRracer we might be able to detect the current users of modded fans if the printer boots up with the new firmware without the flag to run wizard on first boot, detect the rpm and unlock it. This wouldn't change the behavior for current user? Just in theory for now. |
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@josefprusa would that means if we have a Sunon, reset the config and boot then we might destroy the fan, no? |
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@gregsaun that is, why there are release notes. Feel free to propose another solution while maintaining our parameters of not bothering new users. |
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@josefprusa why not adding a resistor on the fan like adapters of Noctua fans? |
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I still like the GCODE idea the best but all I care is that this is being addressed and community voices are being heard. Thank you Prusa team. |
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As someone with an upgraded fan, I'm ok with anything that doesn't involve compiling my own firmware. Gcode, secret menu, autodetect, whatever. Thanks for listening to us! :) |
@josefprusa just a caution there - that's of the people who completed the survey, or installed such modifications after doing so. I don't recall seeing this survey ever myself, for example. Gotta be careful of hidden biases in selection for such surveys. I see PhD candidates running into that trap frequently!! Thank you for taking the time to listen to us, and consider our viewpoints on this. Personally, I'm happy so long as we have a way to adjust this behavior without having to flash an unofficial build. |
@josefprusa Surveys are essential, but to be taken with a big grain of salt. I have two highly modified MK2.5S and one MK3S in the making, and no survey has ever reached my mailbox. I completed the Mini survey last week, telling you my Mini is not modded. But this is only because I have waited for that thing for months, and so did others. There are any worth mentioning mods out there yet. But between the survey and now, I have printed a back cover for the LCD screen for the Mini. Is this enough of a mod to make the survey obsolete? I think that if you guys want to go with Delta fans, you should make it in a way that the hardware you change incorporates the mods, not stuff that is already out in the wild. Incorporate a resistor, an adapter harness, or whatnot for those, but leave the firmware alone. Next year you find another fan supplier, and what then? After you changed the extruder fan size from 30x30 to 40x40, the extruder fan is the smallest noise issue IMHO. |
PFW-1109