Remove firefox ios and focus, add safari #701
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no longer do |
Is there something focus does that safari doesn't? If so I'll keep it. |
Custom search engines. And please don't say you can add a bookmark to a search engine on your home screen with Safari, that is the jankiest solution imaginable. |
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I also don't think this is a good idea. Firefox Focus offers in-build ad-blocking which is much easier then with Safari + something like Adguard. |
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Yup. I think it can be summarized as just "easy to use, easy to recommend." |
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This is currently a big topic in browsers in our community. Some people seem to think that blocking ads makes you less private. I really disagree with this. Blocking trackers and ads by default will block so many parties from collecting your data. Obviously there are also more sophisticated tracking technologies such as fingerprinting but if that is your thread you need to use Tor and probably Tails. Lets not create the idea that you can prevent this in general browsers by not recommending people to block as many as you can. Stopping trackers and ads from loading at all still benefits you the most as most of the internet still uses this. It's fairly easy to block all those nasty companies from loading their scripts in to your system, which is both great for privacy and security. |
Similar to Tor browser, you can disable javascript and the ads won't load at all. And of course any adblocker you want can be added to Safari, whereas focus you're stuck with Mozilla's. |
Afaik you can't install extensions on Safari in Ios or has this changed recently? The only way to do it was always to install Adguard which for non technical users is a pain and complex process. Similar to disabling JavaScript, that isn't something non technical users will do and understand. Edit: We have a group of people who go very extreme and trade usability for privacy (like myself) but let's not forgot that many people use this website to find a simplistic route to some more privacy. If you overwhelm those people with complex installation procedures and limited usability they will quickly give up. |
You can install extensions. Extension functionality on Safari iOS was recently expanded quite significantly and now matches the capabilities of Safari macOS. AdGuard has an extension, which is more sophisticated from a content blocker (I assume), however it requires payment to use. |
Oh that is completely new to me. Does this mean we can install ublock origin in safari on ios? That would be great news. I wonder if this will mean that other webkit browsers will get this ability as well. |
No, Safari still doesn't have all the necessary APIs for uBlock Origin despite them being technically available in WebKit. |
Doesn't look like ublock origin is available yet. There is adguard though. |
AdGuard limits its advanced protection (aka it's actual extension) behind a paywall. Free users are stuck with 'content blockers'. I'm not sure how it compares from Firefox Focus' content blocking, as in whether Focus' is on par with content blockers or extensions. |
Yeah i just checked this fork that i knew of: el1t/uBlock-Safari#158 seems to be dead. |
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I guess we could recommend people to use safari with that. Not against this at all, but removing FF seems not the right moment if no good adblocking solution is available atm. |
There are quite a few, including focus's blocking itself available as an extension. The user can easily pick whichever one they want. Safari actually does some anti-fingerprinting and adblockers will make you more unique. I really think it's a bad idea to recommend them. |
I can't find this focus extension, what is the name of it? Yeah the unique part we really disagree on. If you block trackers from loading at all they cannot fingerprint you. In most cases you will have blocked them so this argument really doesn't go up for me. Eitherway if that is what you are defending for, you need to use TOR. |
Well safari already does tracker blocking by default, just not adblocking. The extension is available when you install the focus app. |
So seems you would still need the focus app? Yeah safari does some 'limited' tracking prevention. But not much regarding ads, who often track everything they can. |
Btw you mentioned tor, Safari has a sort of tor-lite (private relay) that puts your connection through two hops. I explain it in my pr. So I think there is a point to be made for blending in with other Safari users. |
Sorry, I don't think I mentioned this earlier despite having the idea — I think Focus would fit as an honorable mention, not a full card. Just a link and a quick snippet stating it offers custom search engine functionality and built-in ad blocking. |
If enough people want it I'll just keep it like it is now with an added mention of the custom search engine feature. |
PG has moved away from honorable mentions. Only full card worth tools are listed. Both Safari and Focus aren't ideal situations. But let's hope for a uBo version for Safari on ios. |
Ah, wasn't aware of that. I'm not sure if you saw my comment earlier, but UBO for Safari won't be coming unless Safari makes a more APIs available. https://github.com/uBlockOrigin/uBlock-issues/issues/1444 Though there is the Orion browser that circumvents this, it's an in-beta Safari clone that supports both Chrome & Firefox extensions on iOS (not sure how). It'll be interesting to see how the Safari extension space evolves over time. |
ghost
marked this pull request as ready for review
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I am personally not a big fan of extensions, I don't even like uBlockOrigin to begin with. IMO adblocking is a convenience thing and doesn't do anything for privacy & security. It is not a systematic way to solve any problem. Besides, on macOS safari incognito mode starts every new tab without any cookies or site data. Not sure if this is the case on iOS (I don't have an iPhone right now), but that should solve the problem with trackers. As far as I understand it, Private Relay is a proxy and not a VPN. Please double check this. |
Yeah, it's the same on iOS — just tested it. And as for PR, from my understanding it functions more as a VPN, not a proxy. |
Actually no, I'm wrong. They are proxies, as stated in this video https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2021/10096/
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I think we leave private relay for a different part of the site, yeah? |
Yeah this makes sense for the MacOS/iOS pages that will be created. |
Removing Firefox iOS and Focus, replacing with Safari
All browsers on iOS must use Apple's WebKit to be allowed on the App Store. As a result, any browser on the app store is essentially just Safari under the hood. Safari also offers features like blocking cross-site tracking and extensions, which essentially replaces the functionality of Firefox iOS. Each private tab in Safari is isolated from every other tab, and when the user closes a private tab, all history and cookies related to that tab are deleted. This means each private tab in Safari replicates the functionality of Focus. These apps do not add anything that Safari doesn't already offer, so I'm replacing them with a Safari guide.
Related to this discussion: https://github.com/privacyguides/privacyguides.org/discussions/662