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Add an 'async' hint to functions #442
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@@ -1295,7 +1296,7 @@ typedef-item ::= resource-item | |||
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func-item ::= id ':' func-type ';' | |||
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func-type ::= 'func' param-list result-list |
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Could you add some text to Wit.md briefly describing what non-blocking
does, from a Wit user perspective? And maybe link back to the Explainer.md for the full details?
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Good idea, fixed, PTAL
design/mvp/Async.md
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``` | ||
If a resource-type has a potentially-blocking constructor, it can simply use | ||
`static new: func(...) -> my-resource` instead; `constructor` has no advantages | ||
beyond more-idiomatic bindings generation in some languages. |
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From a new Wit user perspective. the name "non-blocking" could sound like it means "no stopping the caller" rather than "no waiting for I/O", which would be confusing since it does the exact opposite of that :-}. At least we should clearly document the Wit-user-facing side of this keyword.
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Yeah, I suppose "blocking" does have multiple interpretations. I added this addition to the previous note, but it could probably be improved.
design/mvp/Explainer.md
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a `valtype`. | ||
a `valtype`. Function types can optionally be annotated with a `non-blocking` | ||
attribute which has no semantic effect and is ignored at validation- and | ||
run-time, serving primarily as a hint that tells bindings generators to lift |
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Is the "primarily" here redundant?
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Yeah, I suppose so. It felt a bit off without any word, so I tried "only", and also tightened up the rest of the sentence in this commit, PTAL
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Since this is just a hint for the binding generators and not actually enforced at runtime: as a WIT author I'd rather prefer the defaults to be swapped. I.e. functions should be generated as As an example I annotated the wasi-sockets proposal with both defaults:
Aside from the amount of work it is for me (which I can live with :P ), annotating only the "blocking" functions is more familiar to readers who have experience with |
I said the same thing when @lukewagner and I discussed this a while ago. I believe his response was that constructors are non-blocking by convention and that, once WIT has special syntax for resource getters and setters, those will also be non-blocking by convention, which should reduce the number of explicit annotations required. That said, I still tend to agree with you about swapping, since experience has show that functions in the average WIT interface that involve I/O are in the minority, even after you ignore the constructors, getters, and setters. |
Scanning that wasi-sockets PR, 28 of the 34 For the case of For the case of But for the last case, |
Regarding As for
I see your point (and the "but not hard" caveat), but I don't know how to extrapolate that guidance:
Having native syntax for getters & setters could indeed help alleviate many of the annotations in wasi-sockets. As you already counted out, that would bring the amount of needed annotations down from 34 to just 6. Versus 5. So: potáto, potàto. 🙃 My other point still stands though; this is a syntax is directed at binding generators / language implementors. IMO it still makes sense to speak "their" language, not "ours". From a JavaScript/Python/Rust/C#/.. developer's POV, seeing an |
@badeend Good points! Revisiting the case of Happy to hear more thoughts on this! |
Polling more folks during the BA component-model implementation meeting, lots of agreement on switching the default. But the meeting also highlighted that @sunfishcode was right above in saying that "blocking" can naturally be interpreted to have the opposite meaning that I'm assuming in the PR. Thinking of what a good short intuitive alternative keyword is, Thus, in summary, it seems like a good idea to default to synchronous bindings with an explicit opt-in via |
Virtualization adds an interesting perspective to this, because people may sometimes make APIs that are fine to be synchronous initially, but which other people later want to virtualize using slower implementations. A historic example of this is Unix thinking that disks are fast and making all filesystem APIs synchronous. Then when they tried to "virtualize" it with NFS it had to try to fake synchronous semantics while being async under the covers, which got awkward. Also, "async" may give people the wrong intuition with respect to wasm's colorless async composition. Sync code can still call these "async" functions, using sync bindings. I'm fond of the idea of making "blocking" (aka "async") the default, provided we can find a sufficiently intuitive keyword for "non-blocking". How does "shallow" sound? bind: shallow func(local-address: ip-socket-address) -> result<_, error-code>; "Shallow" evokes the idea that this function doesn't have a deep call tree; it just configures a local data structure and then returns. Perhaps not obvious enough to intuit from first principles, but might feel natural once learned. |
I also like the idea of "async by default", but the monkey wrench for me was cases like Also, while I also worry about |
Given that the new opt-in keyword ( I was enthusiastic about an async ABI default as well, but it clearly seems the less frequent choice once |
Ah, that's true. Initially I was thinking that the alternative would be to just have bindings generators default to sync bindings. That would also eliminate the same surprises. But the place where this breaks is if you have a mix of p2 and p3 APIs, and you want to use async bindings for the p3 APIs, but that would make all your p2 APIs use async bindings too, which they likely weren't designed for. In other words, we have this table:
Which shows how if we made
I don't think foo: blocking func() -> s32;
foo: non-blocking func() -> futue<s32>; The |
And following up on my comment here, since it makes sense for the default to be non-blocking, "shallow" is the wrong sense, and I agree that it makes sense to call the keyword "async" for familiarity. |
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Ok, I updated the PR to flip defaults and use Working on this, I realized that there is a much better place to put a hint that doesn't affect static or dynamic semantics and only informs bindgen: in the import/export name string. Thus, I updated the PR to encode the |
This PR adds
non-blocking
tofunctype
(both in WAT and WIT). It's a pretty small addition and doesn't touch validation/runtime.While it initially seemed attractive to enforce
non-blocking
with trap-on-block semantics, there are valid scenarios where a callee might actually want/need to block and where the loss of concurrency in the caller is fine. Thus the PR proposes makingnon-blocking
just a hint (ignored by validation/runtime) to inform bindings generation (e.g., allowing bindings generators that make all functionsasync
by default emit non-async
functions fornon-blocking
).constructor
impliesnon-blocking
(sincenew
expressions in most languages can't be async). However, to avoid breaking wasip2, we don't (yet) require validation of[constructor]
-named functions to containnon-blocking
(adding this to the list of warts to remove in the next breaking change). In any case, bindings generators can always just take the non-blocking hint directly from seeing[constructor]
.