Temperature variance monitor tweaks #23571
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This is the most decent solution I could think of. Other tweaks I considered:
I think the issue at hand is rare (such extreme temperature stability), but still the firmware should be as reliable as possible, so it is important that the variance feature remains enabled, even with some compromise. There's room for discussion here, so I'm leaving this PR as a draft for the moment. |
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Some info that may be helpful: one of my printers triggers this pretty consistently on the hotend heater. According to OctoPrint, the hotend temperature only varied from target a few times over 30+ minutes, and then only by 0.2 C at most, granted OctoPrint is only getting the temperature periodically so the actual temp probably does fluctuate more often, but it is very stable: This is an Ender 3 Pro with a MicroSwiss hotend using stock thermistor and heater, so not some rare/odd setup. I'll try to flash these changes and see if it improves, but current bugfix renders my printer unusable with this feature turned on unfortunately. |
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Thank you @The-EG, this is valuable information. I guess this is with the default thermal protection periods, so do give it a try if you will, with the period override (120'' or maybe more) and see how it works. You don't have to print anything, just keep the heater on. If you still get errors, you should keep the feature off, and we might have to think of a different solution. |
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Yes, sorry I didn't specify, that was with the default periods. I pulled this PR down and set the period to 120 seconds, reflashed, heated up the hotend and waited. it failed after 7 minutes. Here's the temps that got reported back to OctoPrint during that time, starting just before the temp stabilized: Log OutputI'll turn this off for now, but if there's something more I can test later, let me know. edit: if it matters this is with a creality v4.2.7 board, so STM32F1 |
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Yeah, you better keep it off. This makes me rethink the usefulness of variance monitoring as a general solution to the temperatures updating issue... |
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@zeleps Looks like you are finding more hardware that is falling over. p.s I disabled the other PR and the printer completed a near 10hr print just fine. Rome was`nt built in 1 day so keep going. |
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@CBDesignS unfortunately this is something you have to anticipate when writing software that may run on an assortment of hardware platforms. These features need a lot of comprehensive testing, and this is not an option for this project. I have to admit that you've been - involuntarily - part of the testing squad, since there is no other way. My recommendation for the feature right now is to keep it disabled by default, with a suppressible compilation warning and detailed explanation of its function, configuration and expected behavior. I'll create a new commit in this direction probably tomorrow. @thisiskeithb, could you please add a "needs discussion" label to this PR? |
thisiskeithb
added
C: Safety
C: Temperatures
Needs: Discussion
I think that should be done now since it's currently enabled & will likely cause issues on any printer with stable temps. |
I'm not home right now. Also, it should probably be done on 2.0.9.3 as well, but I don't think I can create a PR for that, can I? |
thinkyhead has magical powers. |
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By all means then, please go ahead and disable it, I'll make my proposed changes in comments and warnings tomorrow. |
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@zeleps if it was`nt for you and like minded Devs I would still be running Sailfish on a prehistoric 8 bit board. I/we are just glad to help by testing on lots of different hardware so little bugs etc can be squashed and keep Marlin going strong. Respect is offered where Respect is due. |
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Disabled the feature by default, updated comments, added a suppressible warning. Also thinking of a mechanism complimentary to watchdog (in the main loop) that would ensure temperature ISR is reading sensor values regularly. We don't really know if this is the source of the original problem, but it will help pinpoint the issue if it happens again. I'll propose something more concrete soon. |
…x-TempVarianceFeatureTweaks
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Also ran into this with the Ender 3 S1, default hardware configuration, properly PID tuned. May I suggest we do enable this by default for external temperature monitors like the MAX31865, which are more likely to have the required variances and have more likelihood of failing compared to the ADC inputs of the micro controller? |
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Ive got many machines in chambers which hold very stable temps. This may work better if comparing to the raw adc readings with temp_hotend[e].raw and compare for any meaningful change, even if its below the point that conversion to C will show or compare the current translated temperature to the direct reading and throw error if they deviate. That would avoid issues on very stable systems. Another thing to note, the hang issues you mentioned I have seen almost exclusively on overflashed BTT boards. They instruct users to flash 256k rated MCU's to 512k and issues like this occur. Its likely memory corruption as rejected memory is being used. Has there been an absolute confirmation of hangs with heaters on with a board flashed withing MCU rated limits? |
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It's been a while. I haven't heard back from @MakerMeik since. Last thing I know about this is that my latest commit (1ffe8b4) properly triggers the watchdog, thus preventing a thermal runaway (this was tested thoroughly). I'm not using this board anymore, so I don't personally care whether this PR is merged or not, but I think the proposed way of handling ADC reads is definitely better than ignoring the doneness bit. I guess it's time to close this, one way or another. |
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Believe it or not, the problem has not reoccurred since our last contact. And in the meantime I have made several dozen prints with the machine. According to my understanding, the print should at least stop when the problem occurs. But that was not (any longer) the case. Who knows whether the cause was a loose contact that just happened to get better again. |
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Really glad to know that @MakerMeik! I don't know if reading and respecting the doneness bit actively solves the issue, but that's the code that Meik's been using. |
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One interesting development in the area of thermal protection is Prusa Firmware updating its behavior so that if the temperature goes too far outside the hysteresis range for too long, instead of killing the machine due to thermal runaway, it sounds an alarm and pauses the machine, allowing the user to resume if the temperature has simply been thrown off by something. That would be a good addition to Marlin as well. |
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Co-authored-by: Scott Lahteine <thinkyhead@users.noreply.github.com>
Co-authored-by: Scott Lahteine <thinkyhead@users.noreply.github.com>
Co-authored-by: Scott Lahteine <thinkyhead@users.noreply.github.com>
Co-authored-by: Scott Lahteine <thinkyhead@users.noreply.github.com>
Description
It appears that some heaters tend to keep their temperature constant for prolonged periods of time, thus triggering the thermal malfunction error and halting. So some tweaking is necessary to filter out such false positives.
This tweak allows defining a larger detection window for thermal malfunction, without affecting the other thermal runaway checks. This poses the risk that the time window override might be too large for some faster heaters, allowing them to reach higher temperatures in the case of real temperature malfunction.
Also, added some detailed information in the comments about the feature and how to tweak it.
Requirements
THERMAL_PROTECTION_VARIANCE_MONITORBenefits
Allows finer tweaking in the case of very stable heaters.
Configurations
Related Issues
#20749, #23373