Dog access on foot and cycle ways

[codeinabox]

Whilst visiting Australia, I noticed signs indicating dog access on foot and cycle ways. This got me thinking it would be great to have a quest for this

[rusty-snake]

Well, if there is a sign we tag dog=lashed. But what if not dog=no, dog=yes, dog:signed=no? I wan't in Australia but how common are such signs there?

[codeinabox]

From what I have seen so far in Australia and the UK, is that there are generally only signs when the access is restricted, ie dog=no and dog=leashed

[FloEdelmann]

see also #2478

[matkoniecz]

Whilst visiting Australia, I noticed signs indicating dog access on foot and cycle ways. This got me thinking it would be great to have a quest for this

is it typical to have such sign?

are there sometimes also different rules?

what % of footways and cycleway is signed like this? 1% 10%? 50%?

[codeinabox]

is it typical to have such sign?

In both the UK and Australia, it's quite common for parks and walking trails to have signage about dog restrictions. Increasingly, UK councils are placing restrictions on where dogs can access.

are there sometimes also different rules?

How do you mean? In terms of signs, I've only seen signs saying dogs aren't allowed, or that they must be leashed.

what % of footways and cycleway is signed like this? 1% 10%? 50%?

This is hard to quantify. In terms of parks in the UK and Australia, it's very common to have some restrictions on where dogs can't go.

[mnalis]

How do you mean? In terms of signs, I've only seen signs saying dogs aren't allowed, or that they must be leashed.

So, if you don't see the sign, does that mean that:

• unleashed dogs are absolutely always allowed there if there is no sign
• only leashed dogs are absolutely always allowed there if there is no sign, but not unleashed ones
• dogs might be allowed, but exact case depends on local jurisdiction and circumstances (e.g. they might be allowed but must always be leashed, or only certain breeds / sizes must be leashed and/or muzzled, or they may be unleashed in some places but not the others, or some places like hospital grounds disallow them but other places allow them even if there are no signs etc).
• you can't know answer on the spot where quest is being asked, as the signs are e.g. posted only on the entrances to the park, so you have to go to the entrances to find the answer

All of those might be problematic as they fail several of the quest guidelines (e.g. "👨‍💻 Users are no experts", "🐿️ Easy answer"). Imagine, if you will, that you're first time tourist in Croatia with no idea of local laws, and you open StreetComplete, and such quest pops up. If there is a park with picture of crossed-over dog at the entrance, it's easy - you'd recognize that it means dog=no. But would you know what to answer if there were no sign at all? dog=leashed? dog=unleashed? dog=no?

You might suggest to have answer "It is not signed" instead, which would tag e.g. dog:signed=no. That has its own issues (see #2478 (comment)).

Also, if majority of the e.g. highway=footway have one of the answers - say, if 99% of footways are not signed (as I would expect?), even if it clear to always means dog=unleashed (or anything else, it's just an example tagging), it also fails "💤 No spam".

This is hard to quantify. In terms of parks in the UK and Australia, it's very common to have some restrictions on where dogs can't go.

But highway=footway and highway=cycleway also exists (and likely in much bigger number) outside of parks, right?
StreetComplete has technical limitation that makes it hard to limit a quest only on footways in parks (unless park happens to be very small). And anyways, idea of dogs in parks and playground has been discussed in #2478. If there are new insights about questions raised there, they should be provided.

---

Now, I agree with you that the information is useful, and that same cases are clear -- e.g. if there is "no dogs" sign, it is clear we need to add dog=no. However, in cases where answer might be spammy or is not always perfectly clear (e.g. when there is no sign of any kind), it is not a good candidate for StreetComplete Quest, IMHO. It might be an acceptable candidate for StreetComplete Overlay (or MapComplete theme) though, as that have different design principle.

[codeinabox]

However, in cases where answer might be spammy or is not always perfectly clear (e.g. when there is no sign of any kind), it is not a good candidate for StreetComplete Quest, IMHO. It might be an acceptable candidate for StreetComplete Overlay (or MapComplete theme) though, as that have different design principle.

Thank you for the feedback. I was thinking of this as an overlay, what's the process for suggesting an overlay?

[mnalis]

I was thinking of this as an overlay, what's the process for suggesting an overlay?

That's a good question @codeinabox ; we don't currently have a GitHub issue template for suggesting overlays - perhaps because there are just a few Overlays (contrast that with hundreds of Quests) and we don't have good idea how to support big number of them. 🤷‍♂️

I'd probably go with new issue / quest suggestion (as many of the points still apply), but make it clear that I'm suggesting an Overlay (with reasoning why it is better idea than a quest). You'd also want to include overlay-specific things (it helps if you've used some overlays before so you know how they function), e.g.:

• what elements should be colored (e.g. only highway=footway and highway=cycleway? Or also leisure=park etc?)
• what elements are clickable / changeable (includes at least the above colored elementes, but may include more)
• when clicking on those elements, what are the options which should be offered to the user (in English) and what would they should tag (e.g. "Dogs are explicitly forbidden by sign here - dog=no", etc.)
• (perhaps what colors should be used for existing different dog=* values. Red is always used for missing, and black usually for no, but there are also yes / leashed / unleashed and few other values documented in the wiki which might be applicable)

Oh, and do link from this discussion to the new issue (and from the issue back to this discussion, as GitHub doesn't do that automatically) so interested parties may follow (and reference both for more details).

[matkoniecz]

what's the process for suggesting an overlay?

Review https://github.com/streetcomplete/StreetComplete/blob/master/OVERLAY_GUIDELINES.md

Create a new issue if it passes requirements

[codeinabox]

Here is an example from the UK in a green space indicating dog=no