Security State?

[kitty99hub]

Hi,
Since 2 days, I have had problems with my versatile thermostat.
I used it to control an electrical radiator, and it worked fine for about 2 weeks.
If I turn the thermostat to "heat", after a short time (one or two minutes), it turns automatically off.
Now I have seen that it has an entity called "security state" and that this was tripped to "unsafe"....
Unfortunately, I could not find any information about this entity and the state "unsafe".
Any idea what will cause such an unsafe state?
Many thanks
kind regards

[paulashby1966]

I have a similar issue to yours that has started in the last week or two.
I have IR panels controlled by zigbee sockets and motion detectors. They are often now in security when I arrive home and the rooms are way below the ECO setpoint. I wanted to ask why this happens and if anyone has some ideal advanced settings to stop it happening. I changed some this morning but when I got home most had gone to security again.

[jmcollin78]

Security state are explained in the readme. Please have a look.

[kitty99hub]

Hi @jmcollin78
thanks for your reply.
I already had read it, but unfortunately I don't really understand it and couldn't find out what the exact reason for my failures is.
I don't want to start messing around with all the parameters to try it by the try and error method ;)
I'm missing either a good practical example or a more detailed description of this function....
Attached is a screenshot of the switching process, maybe anybody can read something suspicious out of it...?
Thanks,
regards

[jmcollin78]

Security mode is when you temperature sensor stops giving the temperature. This can be very dangerous, if the heater is then stuck at 100% heating.

So there is delay configurable in the "Advanced configuration" page (the last page).
If I look at your temperature curve, it seems that temperature have not been send during more than one hour, just before the security state is on:

If you consider it is normal, you "just" have to change the configuration parameter describe in readme:

The second delay (security_delay_min) is the maximal delay between two temperature measure before setting the preset to security and turning off the thermostat. If the temperature sensor is no more giving temperature measures, the thermostat and heater will turns off after this delay and the preset of the thermostat will be set to security. This is useful to avoid overheating is the battery of your temperature sensor is too low.

Beware this is also the case for the outdoor temperature. With the VTherm UI Card (https://github.com/jmcollin78/versatile-thermostat-ui-card) you know when this happens and why.

What seems not normal in that the security should stops when the temperature sensor sends the temperature. And it seems it is not stopping as expected. I will have a look.

[kitty99hub]

Hi and thanks for the infos.
In following screenshot I added the outside temperature and it seems for mee, that there was no signal outage for the in and outside temperatures.

[jmcollin78]

I cannot reproduce your case. All works fine on my env.

[kitty99hub]

Hi @jmcollin78
ok, I'll continue to observe it and if it happens again I'll see if I can provide further information.
Maybe an idea or tip on what I should take a look at, i.e. what information might be interesting for investigation?
thanks and have a nice weekend

[jmcollin78]

Yes please, if it is reproducing, can you provide all attributes of the VTherm ( Development Tools / State in text format and formatted with the <> button).
If possible I would like also some logs when the VTherm stays in Security mode but should not.

This would be very helpful. Thank you in advance

[FranMaverix]

Hi, I'm having that trouble in my two new created versatile thermostat (two electrical radiators)
Right now, I have the two in security mode. Both temp. sensors are available.

The climate.salita state is this: (it shows this warning in the card: internal temp: 20 min.)

hvac_modes:

• heat
• "off"
  min_temp: 10
  max_temp: 28
  target_temp_step: 0.1
  preset_modes:
• none
• eco
• comfort
• boost
  current_temperature: 21.6
  temperature: 22.5
  hvac_action: idle
  preset_mode: security
  is_on: true
  hvac_mode: heat
  type: null
  eco_temp: 21
  boost_temp: 24
  comfort_temp: 22.5
  eco_away_temp: 18
  boost_away_temp: 20
  comfort_away_temp: 19
  power_temp: 20
  target_temperature_step: 0.1
  ext_current_temperature: 17
  ac_mode: false
  current_power: null
  current_power_max: null
  saved_preset_mode: comfort
  saved_target_temp: 21
  saved_hvac_mode: heat
  window_state: "off"
  motion_state: null
  overpowering_state: null
  presence_state: "on"
  window_auto_state: "off"
  window_bypass_state: false
  security_delay_min: 60
  security_min_on_percent: 0.5
  security_default_on_percent: 0.1
  last_temperature_datetime: "2023-12-06T18:24:07.235535+01:00"
  last_ext_temperature_datetime: "2023-12-06T13:04:35.164367+01:00"
  security_state: true
  minimal_activation_delay_sec: 10
  device_power: 2.4
  mean_cycle_power: 0.24
  total_energy: 5.25
  last_update_datetime: "2023-12-06T18:24:25.144084+01:00"
  timezone: Europe/Madrid
  window_sensor_entity_id: null
  window_delay_sec: 30
  window_auto_open_threshold: 3
  window_auto_close_threshold: 0
  window_auto_max_duration: 30
  motion_sensor_entity_id: null
  presence_sensor_entity_id: input_boolean.presencia_salita
  power_sensor_entity_id: null
  max_power_sensor_entity_id: null
  temperature_unit: °C
  is_device_active: false
  ema_temp: 21.76
  is_over_switch: true
  is_inversed: false
  underlying_switch_0: switch.salita_3
  underlying_switch_1: null
  underlying_switch_2: null
  underlying_switch_3: null
  on_percent: 0.1
  power_percent: 10
  on_time_sec: 90
  off_time_sec: 810
  cycle_min: 15
  function: tpi
  tpi_coef_int: 0.6
  tpi_coef_ext: 0.01
  friendly_name: Salita
  supported_features: 17

The other device only shows in the lovelace card an thermometer with exclamation without text.
state:

hvac_modes:

• heat
• "off"
  min_temp: 7
  max_temp: 35
  target_temp_step: 0.1
  preset_modes:
• none
• eco
• comfort
• boost
  current_temperature: 18.5
  temperature: 16.9
  hvac_action: "off"
  preset_mode: none
  is_on: false
  hvac_mode: "off"
  type: null
  eco_temp: 19
  boost_temp: 22.5
  comfort_temp: 21
  eco_away_temp: 18
  boost_away_temp: 20
  comfort_away_temp: 19
  power_temp: 18
  target_temperature_step: 0.1
  ext_current_temperature: 17
  ac_mode: false
  current_power: 0
  current_power_max: null
  saved_preset_mode: eco
  saved_target_temp: 18
  saved_hvac_mode: heat
  window_state: "off"
  motion_state: null
  overpowering_state: null
  presence_state: "on"
  window_auto_state: "off"
  window_bypass_state: false
  security_delay_min: 60
  security_min_on_percent: 0.5
  security_default_on_percent: 0.1
  last_temperature_datetime: "2023-12-06T18:43:28.346010+01:00"
  last_ext_temperature_datetime: "2023-12-06T13:04:35.164367+01:00"
  security_state: true
  minimal_activation_delay_sec: 10
  device_power: 1.5
  mean_cycle_power: 0.15000000000000002
  total_energy: 337.81
  last_update_datetime: "2023-12-06T18:43:28.351103+01:00"
  timezone: Europe/Madrid
  window_sensor_entity_id: binary_sensor.ventana_cuarto
  window_delay_sec: 30
  window_auto_open_threshold: null
  window_auto_close_threshold: null
  window_auto_max_duration: null
  motion_sensor_entity_id: null
  presence_sensor_entity_id: input_boolean.presencia_cuarto
  power_sensor_entity_id: sensor.regleta_mesilla
  max_power_sensor_entity_id: null
  temperature_unit: °C
  is_device_active: false
  ema_temp: 18.62
  is_over_switch: true
  is_inversed: false
  underlying_switch_0: switch.regleta2_2
  underlying_switch_1: null
  underlying_switch_2: null
  underlying_switch_3: null
  on_percent: 0.1
  power_percent: 10
  on_time_sec: 60
  off_time_sec: 540
  cycle_min: 10
  function: tpi
  tpi_coef_int: 0.6
  tpi_coef_ext: 0.01
  friendly_name: Cuarto
  supported_features: 17

I hope this help.

[jmcollin78]

Hello @FranMaverix ,

Your problem is the outdoor temperature sensor for which the last timestamp of measure is:
last_ext_temperature_datetime: "2023-12-06T13:04:35.164367+01:00"
and now is last_update_datetime: "2023-12-06T18:43:28.351103+01:00" 5 hours later.

It is not visible in the UI card due to a bug that I have just publish, a few minutes ago. You should install it and security mode will be much mode explicit.

You have to check your outdoor temp sensor.

This explains that the both VTherm have turn into security mode in the same time.

[FranMaverix]

I was using the AEMET (Spainish Meteorology Agency) Integration as external temperature sensor. I switched to ACCUWEATHER integration and for now, is running OK.
I think that the forecast AEMET API do not allow too many calls.
Thanks for your support and your work!

[maia]

A small suggestion: use the ha-average sensor and create an average of multiple sources, ideally one of them local and one of them internet-based. I'm using this in more and more places, as it's nearly impossible to be unavailable.

This is what I use in configuration.yaml (replace the sensors with their real names):

  - platform: average
    name: "Outdoor temperature"
    # this will create the entity_id: sensor.outdoor_temperature
    unique_id: "outdoor_temperature"
    entities:
      - sensor.locally_measured_temperature
      - sensor.openweathermap_temperature
      - sensor.amet_temperature
      - sensor.accuweather_temperature
    duration:
      minutes: 10
    precision: 2

[jmcollin78]

@kitty99hub

Maybe you have the same problem: the outdoor temperature sensor. You send me curve about the internal temp sensor but security mode can also turn on if outdoor temp is too old.

[kitty99hub]

Hi @jmcollin78
I had to look again myself... :)
There are two overlapping curves !
The current room temperature is actually shown twice on this combined graph.
Once the entity that comes from the Aqara temperature sensor itself: sensor.bedroom_multisensor_aqaralumiweather_temperature (shown as orange line) and once supplied by the Versatile Thermostat entity: climate.bedroom_heater (shown as dark blue line).

In the two following graphics, where only these entities are visible, you can see that they represent the same data and therefore overlap.

Sorry for this misleading.
Yes, I could try out the VTherm UI card for testing purposes.
I didn't want to install it until now because I don't actually intend to use it on my system.
Based on the history, I can't determine that the security mode is caused by failures of the temperature sensors...
Can this also be triggered by other causes/conditions?
thanks

[jmcollin78]

Can this also be triggered by other causes/conditions?

No. It is the only condition.

[jmcollin78]

Once again, if you have some Security mode problem, I need the VTherm attributes when it is in security. They are in Development Tools / States. Post me that in yaml formatted with the <> button of the editor.

Look at the attributes named:

last_temperature_datetime: "2023-12-06T18:43:28.346010+01:00"
last_ext_temperature_datetime: "2023-12-06T13:04:35.164367+01:00"
security_state: true
last_update_datetime: "2023-12-06T18:43:28.351103+01:00"

You should a gap between last_temperature_datetime or last_ext_temperature_datetime and last_update_datetime (the current date). Then you will be able to determine which temperature sensor is in trouble.

[kitty99hub]

Hi @jmcollin78

Once again, if you have some Security mode problem, I need the VTherm attributes when it is in security.

Yes I know, I am still waiting to capture the next outage.
It's now running again for a while without any failures.
As soon as the security mode appears again and I can readout the attributes, I will post them here.
thanks and have a nice Sunday

[jmcollin78]

Ah ok. I think you ran into the security mode one again.

You have all the operations you can follow to diagnose the Security mode here : https://github.com/jmcollin78/versatile_thermostat/blob/main/README.md#why-does-my-versatile-thermostat-go-into-safety