Clover on a Dell Precision T1700

[henry-gray]

My issue is that I have 2 pcie x16 slots one at gen 2 and the other at gen 3, if i use the gen 2 slot it will not boot into Windows11. There is nothing in the bios that I can alter to help.I'm also using the lates version of Clover. I am planning on using the gen 3 slot for a gpu, any advice?

Sorry, I also posted this in the issues thread as well by mistake.

[Morbius01]

It's not easy to give you a definite answer as we don't know your system.
Why don't you just try ?

... if i use the gen 2 slot it will not boot into Windows11.

Is it an observation or a question ?

[Morbius01]

So, during the installation process, on first reboot, the Clover menu did not display the new entry for Windows. Which means that you were unable to complete the installation process.

How old is your Dell workstation (release date) ?
You said that you used the latest version of Clover.

I have a 2009 system and I never succeeded with the latest Clover versions. For me, the only Clover version which worked (well, I did not try them all...) was v.4961. My SSD is installed on a PCIe 2.0 x16 slot. I have read feedback from others saying that, just like me, they had difficulties with the latest Clover versions.

At this stage, my suggestion to you would be to try an earlier Clover version, say the v.4961 which works for me.
To create a Clover key, you will need Clover v.4961 and BDU v2.1.2018 rev.023b.
You will find the 2 files in the CLOVER.zip attachment to the initial post in this thread.

Instructions I followed to create a Clover key in Windows

Make sure the above 2 files are in the same folder.
Start BDUtility.exe.
Click Options → Configuration.
Under Clover Bootloader Source:
. Local and CloverISO-4961.tar.lzma should be selected and Rev: should indicate 4961.
Under Format Options / Boot records:
. Clover should be selected. The Format option should be FAT32 or FAT32-LBA.
Under Multi Partitioning:
. Boot Partition should be selected with a size of 200 MB.
Click OK.
Insert a USB drive. It should appear in Destination Disk.
Click Format, and then OK. The Clover key creation process starts.
Wait until the ‘All Done’ message is displayed (it can take a few minutes…).
The Clover key has been created, and you can close BDUtility.
But one last action remains to be done on the newly created Clover key before you can use it to install an OS on an NVMe SSD:
Copy the ‘EFI/CLOVER/drivers-Off/drivers64UFI/NvmExpressDxe-64.efi’ driver to:
• 'EFI/CLOVER/drivers64’
and to:
• ‘EFI/CLOVER/drivers64UEFI’
Once this is done, you can start to use the Clover key.

Boot your system with your newly created USB Clover key.
Once the Clover menu gets displayed, insert your Win 11 installation key.
A new entry/icon appears. If you select it, Clover will probably crash and freeze ! (if it does not, and if you can start the Windows installation process, good for you ! Just go ahead and follows the instructions)
So, instead of selecting the new entry, go to the last entry ('Exit') and follow this path :
Exit ➔ Boot Maintenance Manager ➔ Boot from File ➔ Windows 10 USB Drive ➔ < efi > ➔ < boot > ➔ bootx64.efi
Select it. The installation process should start.
Note that installing Win 11 requires 2-3 reboots. At each reboot, the Clover key should remain inserted and your system should boot on it.
After the 1st reboot, you will notice a new entry : 'Boot Microsoft EFI Boot from EFI' (or something similar).
This is the entry which needs to be selected each time your system reboots.

[henry-gray]

Boot your system with your newly created USB Clover key. Once the Clover menu gets displayed, insert your Win 11 installation key. A new entry/icon appears. If you select it, Clover will probably crash and freeze ! (if it does not, and if you can start the Windows installation process, good for you ! Just go ahead and follows the instructions) So, instead of selecting the new entry, go to the last entry ('Exit') and follow this path : Exit ➔ Boot Maintenance Manager ➔ Boot from File ➔ Windows 10 USB Drive ➔ < efi > ➔ < boot > ➔ bootx64.efi Select it. The installation process should start. Note that installing Win 11 requires 2-3 reboots. At each reboot, the Clover key should remain inserted and your system should boot on it. After the 1st reboot, you will notice a new entry : 'Boot Microsoft EFI Boot from EFI' (or something similar). This is the entry which needs to be selected each time your system reboots.

It didn't work, I downloaded clover from your link and followed your instructions to put it onto the USB drive.

I didn't know what you meant by Boot Maintenance Manager, if you meant in the Bios then that was the only place I could find an option to boot from file. I then went to windows 11 USB and added file bootx64.efi and booted from that, it installed perfectly fine, then reboot and the only thing Clover could see was the Windows 11 USB install drive, there was nothing else.

If there was any chance I did something wrong I tried it again, with UEFI and Legacy bios, and it didn't work on both options.

[Morbius01]

If you read carefully the instructions in my previous post, you'll see that I never mentioned anything related to the BIOS menu.
My instructions refer to the Clover Menu, the one which is displayed after you boot from your newly created Clover key.
(I assume that you have successfully created a Clover key with BD Utility and the Clover ISO file)

So, in the Clover Menu, you need to go to the last entry (name is Exit) with the arrow keys (the mouse is inactive on this menu although a mouse pointer appears on the screen) and select it with the RETURN key.

A new menu appears. This is where you select 'Boot Maintenance Manager'

Then, continue to follow the path I mentioned earlier.
Exit ➔ Boot Maintenance Manager ➔ Boot From File ➔ "Windows 11 ...." ➔ < efi > ➔ < boot > ➔ bootx64.efi

Please note that, on the "Boot From File" sub-menu, you should select an entry named something like "WIN 11 ..." or "Windows 11 ..." (and not "Windows 10..." as I mentioned earlier).

[henry-gray]

Then, continue to follow the path I mentioned earlier. Exit ➔ Boot Maintenance Manager ➔ Boot From File ➔ "Windows 11 ...." ➔ < efi > ➔ < boot > ➔ bootx64.efi

Please note that, on the "Boot From File" sub-menu, you should select an entry named something like "WIN 11 ..." or "Windows 11 ..." (and not "Windows 10..." as I mentioned earlier).

I am not sure if I am confusing you here.

Your instructions were easy to follow, I created the Clover boot disc from your link, and used BDU to put the file onto the USB, i then let it boot into clover and I exited like you said but I get no boot maintenence Manager, the only way I can add the bootx64.efi in anyway is to physically go into the BIOS and under boot options I am able to add it as a file.

After that I can install Windows then on first reboot clover shows up with only the USB drive.

I understand what you mean by boot maintence manager, I think this depends on your bios, because when I exit clover I get boot options, but mine doesn't have that maintence manager, that is where I would have to go into the bios as I said to add the file.

[Morbius01]

Could you make a copy of what is displayed on the screen after you select 'Exit' from the Clover menu ?

After that I can install Windows then on first reboot clover shows up with only the USB drive.

This is normal because you did not install Windows from Clover.
If you did not install Windows with Clover, you won't be able to boot it from Clover.

[henry-gray]

The top one is just my main Windows SSD, not the NVME.

[Morbius01]

Before we do this, could you check the flags on your NVMe SSD EFI partition as follows ?

This supposes that you have your NVMe SSD in the PCIe Gen 2 slot, on which you previously made a Win 11 installation.

Start Windows (from your SATA SSD).
Click the Search icon. Type 'disks'. Select 'Manage disks and volumes'.
Now look under the NVMe SSD section. Do you have (at least) :
-a FAT32 EFI System Partition referred as a 'System volume'
-a NTFS Basic Data Partition referred as a 'Boot volume'

If you find the above confusing, you may like to make a screen copy of the 'Manage disks and volumes' screen and post it.

[henry-gray]

Before we do this, could you check the flags on your NVMe SSD EFI partition as follows ?

This supposes that you have your NVMe SSD in the PCIe Gen 2 slot, on which you previously made a Win 11 installation.

Start Windows (from your SATA SSD). Click the Search icon. Type 'disks'. Select 'Manage disks and volumes'. Now look under the NVMe SSD section. Do you have (at least) : -a FAT32 EFI System Partition referred as a 'System volume' -a NTFS Basic Data Partition referred as a 'Boot volume'

If you find the above confusing, you may like to make a screen copy of the 'Manage disks and volumes' screen and post it.

I have a 100mb EFI partition, doesn't say what filesystem it is and then 476.83gb NTFS partition.

[Morbius01]

This is worth investigating more. Especially because, on my side, I had issues with those partition flags and the file system types before I succeeded in creating my first OS bootable with Clover a few months back.

On the 'Manage disks and volumes' screen, could you make a screen copy of everything related to the NVMe SSD section, with all the partitions ?

[henry-gray]

The screenshot will only show two partitions the EFI and the NTFS, this is Disk 3

[Morbius01]

This is from the Disk Management utility. Unfortunately, it does not not give enough info.

Could you go to : Start > Settings > System > Storage > Manage Disks and Volumes
and make a screen copy of everything related to your Disk 3 ?

As an example, see mine :

[henry-gray]

Sorry about that, never had to use that one before.

[Morbius01]

I realize that the Clover_4961.iso file I just uploaded is the image of the CLOVER partition (200 MB) of the blank Clover Key I created with BD Utility. It is not the image of the entire key. Meaning that, with this file, you won't be able to create a Clover key using an image writing tool such as Rufus.

However, you can use this file to create a bootable Clover key using system tools (both in Windows and in Linux).
Do you know how to do or do you need more detailed explanations ?

As I am not an expert at making images of bootable USB drives, this might be the fastest way.

[henry-gray]

The image of the Clover key is here. You should be able to create a USB Clover key by flashing it on a USB drive.

If you can boot Clover on your system with it, let's see first what happens after you do Exit ➔ Boot Maintenance Manager ➔ Boot from File. Can you see your NVMe SSD (with Win 11 from a previous install on it) in your Gen 2 slot ?

I'm just getting the same as before, its just showing me the Clover USB drive. I re-installed Windows to see if that would help and I just got the same outcome.

[Morbius01]

I'm just getting the same as before, its just showing me the Clover USB drive. I re-installed Windows to see if that would help and I just got the same outcome.

From the Clover ISO file I posted earlier, how did you create your Clover key ?

[henry-gray]

I think I'm going to give up on this, I'm pretty much certain Dell has done something so that PCIe 3.0 cards cannot be used in the PCIe 2.0 slot during boot.

The computer will not boot with a PCIe 3.0 GPU in the PCIe 2.0 slot.
Clover will not see the NVME drive while in the PCIe 2.0 slot, but is able to see it in the PCIe 3.0 one.
Windows (On a Sata SSD) can see the NVME drive in the PCIe 2.0 slot, when Windows has booted.
Windows boot USB will see the NVME drive and install to it, but will not be recogonised by clover on reboot.

This is evidence enough to know that something has been done, I have been through the BIOS and there is only one option that mentions anything about PCI adpters and i have toggled it on and off numerous times through testing.

Thank you for your help.

[Morbius01]

I think I'm going to give up on this, I'm pretty much certain Dell has done something so that PCIe 3.0 cards cannot be used in the PCIe 2.0 slot during boot.

You mean deliberately ? Sounds weird. Why would they do this ?

The computer will not boot with a PCIe 3.0 GPU in the PCIe 2.0 slot.

I have read somewhere that this GPU problem was solved by other Dell users. From what I remember, it was an issue about the GPU being controlled by the CPU directly rather than by the board chipset.
You may like to check on the Dell usres forums.

Clover will not see the NVME drive while in the PCIe 2.0 slot, but is able to see it in the PCIe 3.0 one.

That could be a Clover problem.

Windows boot USB will see the NVME drive and install to it, but will not be recogonised by clover on reboot.

Again, it could be a Clover problem, maybe linked to the NVMe driver.

Through research, I have read others succeeding in booting Clover on the PCIe 2.0 x16 (wired x4) of other Dell computers (not the T170).

Have you tried any alternate bootloaders ? I was thinking at Duet/Refind ?

[ACDC77]

@henry-gray,
Before I saw your posts here, I came across your post about the same problem on the Win-Raid Forum. I responded to your post there. I have the exact same PC and, with Clover, I'm able to boot from a NVMe SSD on a PCI adapter in either PCI slot. There is a setting in the latest Dell BIOS to enable or disable PCI slots. The PCI x16 Gen 3 slot is always active (and that's why you can boot from it). All other slots are inactive by default. You need to enable the PCI slots in the BIOS. Hope this helps.